Our approach to Flightsim.to Premium and Creators Program

Flightsim.to

Author

February 11, 2023

Announcements

At Flightsim.to, we have always been committed to providing the best possible platform for our users to share their experiences and creations in the world of flight simulation. Over the years, we have closely listened to your feedback and suggestions, and have been working hard to continually improve our website and services. It's been a while since our last update, but we're thrilled to announce that our services have come a long way since October 2022. If you recall, we shared our struggles and progress in the previous community message back then. After a lot of hard work and dedication, we're happy to say that our platform is now in a stage where we can offer further donation options that bring added benefits to our loyal users. We're eager to embark on this next step in our journey, and we want to do it together with the community. We believe that this new development will bring new opportunities and growth for the entire flight simulation community, and obviously our creators shall not miss out on this journey; they are who keep Flightsim.to alive.

While we've been considering how we can take our platform to the next level, and provide even more value to our loyal users, we have come to the conclusion that introducing a Premium Membership in combination with a Creators Reward program is the best approach to meet our objectives. Firstly, we aim to provide an enhanced experience for those Flightsim.to users who desire more and don't want to compromise while using the site, and secondly, we aim to provide added monetization opportunities for the talented creators who make our community vibrant, while keeping freeware as the core focus.

Our approach to the Premium Membership has been guided by a few key principles:

Support our creators: We want to give something back to the talented creators who make Flightsim.to such a vibrant and dynamic community. That's why we're introducing our Creators Program, allowing creators to earn money directly through their downloads and making it easier and even safer for users to donate to creators.
Enhance user experience: We believe that Premium Members who support Flightsim.to with their donation should enjoy a range of exclusive benefits and features, designed to enhance their experience on Flightsim.to and take their flight simulation passion to the next level. Features include ad-free browsing, guaranteed lightning-fast downloads, no countdowns and more.
Maintain affordability: We understand that not everyone can or want to afford a Premium Membership, and that's why we've kept the pricing accessible where possible, while still providing significant value to Premium Members.

Introducing the Creators Program

While the primary purpose of the Flightsim.to Premium Membership is to support the cost of our servers and hosting needs, we also want to provide our creators with the opportunity to benefit financially. They play a crucial role in making our platform what it is, and it is only fitting that they should be able to share in its success. The Creators Program is a key aspect of our Premium Membership offering, and is designed to support and reward the talented individuals who contribute so much to our community. With this program, creators have the opportunity to earn money directly through their downloads, allowing them to receive recognition and compensation for their hard work and creativity. Not only does the Creators Program benefit our creators, but it also benefits our users by providing access to even more high-quality content and experiences. With the added financial incentive, we expect our creators to be even more motivated to produce and share their best work. The Creators Program provides creators with multiple ways to earn money through their contributions to Flightsim.to. Our key principles of the Creators Program are:

Earn more: Firstly, you can earn revenue from unique downloads of your creations. Secondly, you can earn additional income through updates and maintenance of your existing creations. Finally, you can earn bonuses for good ratings on your uploads. This incentivizes creators to continuously improve and update their work.
Easier Donations: We understand that many users want to support their favorite creators, but the process of donating through third-party platforms such as PayPal can be complex, cumbersome and a privacy-critical topic. That's why we've made it easier for users to donate to creators by integrating a donation system directly into Flightsim.to. With our new system, users can purchase donation credit directly on the website (such as $5, $10, $25...), and then allocate the credit to the creators of their choice. This eliminates the need to pass private information to third-parties, and ensures that all donations are made in a secure and streamlined manner. In addition, users have the ability to leave a review and indicate how much of their donation credit they wish to allocate to a particular creator. This not only provides valuable feedback to the creators, but it also enables users to directly impact the success of their favorite contributors. We believe that this new feature will provide a more streamlined and user-friendly experience for our community, and we're excited to see how it will impact our creators and their ability to earn recognition and compensation for their hard work.
Exclusive Program: The Creators Program is a selective and exclusive program, designed to reward our most dedicated and talented creators. While we encourage all creators to continue contributing to Flightsim.to, participation in the Creators Program is subject to specific requirements. These requirements are in place to ensure the quality and legality of the content available on our platform. We will share more information with you when time comes.

We're confident that the Creators Program will be a win-win for everyone involved, and we're excited to see how it will evolve and grow as our community continues to thrive. This is only a first outline of our project, we will get back to you with more details in due course. We currently estimate the period of launch to be March to April 2023.

Flightsim.to Premium Membership

The Flightsim.to Premium Membership offers several key features that enhance the user experience. The concept behind Flightsim.to Premium is a response to the numerous requests from our users who wanted to support and donate to our work. With the introduction of Flightsim.to Premium, you can now do so while also enjoying numerous benefits as a token of appreciation.

Fast Downloads: The Premium Membership offers fast, reliable download speeds, thanks to prioritized routes and direct connections to top-notch CDN servers worldwide. This means you can enjoy speedy downloads no matter your location, and regardless of network traffic on our end. Our partnership with a global CDN guarantees lightning-fast downloads, and our speed guarantee ensures you never have to wait long to get your files.
Ad-free browsing: Another important feature of the Premium Membership is the ad-free browsing experience. With no distracting ads or ad trackers, you get more control of your privacy, can browse the site without any interruptions, making it easier, faster and more enjoyable to use.
No countdowns or limitations: As a Premium Member, you will no longer be subject to countdowns or other download limitations such as needed captcha verifications. This means that you can download files as quickly as you like, without having to wait for long periods of time or solve puzzles to access them.
Supporting Flightsim.to's development: By becoming a Premium Member, you will be directly supporting the continued development of Flightsim.to. This will help to ensure that the platform remains up-to-date and continues to provide the best possible experience for users. The additional resources generated through premium memberships will be used to fund new features and improvements, helping to keep the platform at the forefront of the flightsim community.
Support Creators: With your Flightsim.to Premium Membership, you are not only getting exclusive benefits for yourself, but you are also supporting the talented creators in our Creators Program. The funds generated from Premium Memberships will be used to help creators earn more through our platform.
Faster support: Finally, Premium members will receive priority support, ensuring that any questions or issues are addressed quickly and efficiently. You get access to a private Discord channel with the dev team of Flightsim.to and can address your concerns one-to-one.
Free for loyal creators: The Premium Program rewards our most active and high-performing creators. By meeting certain requirements, such as a minimum number of downloads, creators can earn the benefits of a Flightsim.to Premium Membership for free. These perks are designed to acknowledge and support the creators who contribute to Flightsim.to and make it the thriving community it is.

It's important to note that the introduction of Flightsim.to Premium does not change the core mission of our platform: to provide a free and accessible flight simulation community. All of our current features and functionalities will remain available to all users, regardless of whether or not they choose to upgrade to Premium. We will not introduce any new limitations or change our core features. There will be no limitations on downloads or other restrictions for non-Premium users, including no throttling or speed caps or anything similar: The difference with Premium however is, you get access to are more-expensive, high-performing server network, which obviously also costs us more. Flightsim.to Premium is an optional way for users to support our platform and its ongoing development, as there has luckily been great demand to donate. We remain committed to providing a valuable and enjoyable experience for everyone who participates in the community, whether Premium or not.

We wanted to give you a first glimpse into our plans for Flightsim.to Premium and the Creators Program. While we are still working on the final details, these are the key points you should know. We are eager to hear your feedback and will provide more information in the near future. Our aim is to launch the Premium Membership program within the current month, and our Creators Program at the beginning of the next quarter, so stay tuned for updates.

Comments

KevMcC

over 3 years ago

Excellent idea. Can't wait. Wishing you every success. Thank you for the service you have given so far. Long may it continue.

chusair

over 3 years ago

I like the site and although I do understand that there are costs associated with maintaining, etc these should be cover through donations and the sharing revenues of advertising and payware creations. I considering that profiting out of the creation of so many people that are willing to put the time and effort to create repaints scenery and other enhancements to MSFS for free should remain that FREE

Marionettework

over 3 years ago

Will you be taking 30% of the donations to creators?

brouhahaha

over 3 years ago

Agree, donations for the upkeep of the site should be voluntary. The site should be driven by the love of the sim rather than profiteering.

owend1944

over 3 years ago

Sounds good to me. One problem I have run across regarding downloads is a restricted speed due to my use of an ad blocker with my Firefox browser. Even though I did disable the ad blocker on Flightsim.to and whitelisted it, it still says my ad blocker is on and thus restricts my download speeds. My work around has been to use Microsoft Edge for the larger downloads so no big deal, just a minor inconvenience. Perhaps premium membership will eliminate this issue in Firefox.

merlin20

over 3 years ago

money talks. the more money the more talk.

FlySkyForest

over 3 years ago

completely understandable. We need to realize that everything costs something - even for something that is free in itself.

MrScuba1959

over 3 years ago

I'm on this this once or twice daily and I'm hooked . Hosting this site costs money and time plus Electric prices have gone up as well . So when do we start I want in

JeromeJ

over 3 years ago

Not a fan. This site started as a FREEWARE site and now is a store front with a bit of freeware stuff hidden at the bottom of the page. From amazing utility to money grab. Throttling download speeds for non 'premium' members (which is what you mean by 'Premium Membership offers fast, reliable download speeds' is a joke. The FS community made it 20+ years of modding with out this nonsense. Such a shame. Give it a few months and it will be 'this freeware mod is exclusive to premium members only' across anything worth having. I recommend a return to AVSIM.

azgoodaz

over 3 years ago

Servers cost money to host content. You obviously rely on your parents still to not comprehend money.

Crewchief408

over 3 years ago

I totally agree and understand. Hardware and hosting costs, not to mention personal time to keep it going.. as long as it's affordable and fair.

latenightpilot

over 3 years ago

I don't think you realize how enormous hosting bills alone are for a site of this magnitude.

latenightpilot

over 3 years ago

What if there aren't enough donations to meet the basic hosting costs? A site of this size can easily rack up monthly hosting bills in the thousands of dollars because of the amount of bandwidth transfer.

BritishAvgeek

over 3 years ago

Sounds like a great way to help a) keep the site running and b) reward those contributing a lot to the site and thus the community too with high quality uploads!

OODDS

over 3 years ago

Bravo, je suis d'accord avec cette proposition. Je trouve normal de contribuer, dans la vie tout à un coût. La gratuité a des limites. Merci pour votre super site. OODDS

The_Fly

over 3 years ago

Am I the only one who is starting to think that this site is getting a bit addicted to money. It started as a very nice website for people to share free msfs addons. After a while so many ads where shown on the site that it got kind of unusable whitout an adblocker. Introducing a premium subscription really doesnt help getting away from this course. Like another user allready commented, this site should be driven by love of the sim and not profiteering.
A good alternative to flighstim.to wouldnt just be very welcomed, but I feel like it is needed sooner or later. Its just sad to see into what flightsim.to is developing

The_Fly

over 3 years ago

Oh, you dont think those thousands of ads and donations are going to cover that?

ThelynxPA

over 3 years ago

Did you read the article or just breeze down here to post your 20th century idea? They've clearly stated how content creators will have the opportunity to earn through this program.

ThelynxPA

over 3 years ago

I believe they are looking for support, not fans. Further, your 20th century "everything for free on the internet" idea has long passed. Finally, you are welcome to go to Avsim the dinosaur that it is. Personally, I haven't looked at it since FS9.

ThelynxPA

over 3 years ago

Many folks who get into this type of online resource sharing start it as a hobby. Sometimes the hobby becomes quite successful. One day you wake up and realize you've actually got a business on your hands. At that point you're faced with three choices: 1. Shut it down; 2. Figure out a way to pay for it yourself using any means possible; 3. Go all in and make it commercial. It doesn't matter if it's flight simming, 3D print files, or whatever. You start with the love, but in the end you have to pay the bills. Profiteering really isn't the driver.

FarIslePilot

over 3 years ago

I value the site, use it every day, look forward to what is new, every day, and would be pretty much lost without it. For me a Premium Membership is not only possible but a no-brainer; sign me up. I would say an interesting way to also assist creators (hope to be one, one day btw) is to perhaps 'kitty' some of the membership intake to be distributed to creators that meet a certain minimum, entry-level standard, so that as they are coming up in the addon world, they can see small donations come in, as they work their way up. I think it is a great idea to reward the most active, most dedicated, and most contributing creators I just wouldn't want to forget some of the smaller ones, who do such good work but might not get the downloads (yet) that could incentive them to one day, perhaps, turn their creative hobby into a part or full time business. Thank You for all you do and I look forward to the Membership details and date so we can sign up.

HamMan2118

over 3 years ago

This seems like a great idea!Every day I am impressed. Bravo flightsim.to!!

PaulRix

over 3 years ago

I don't think they stated that you HAVE to subscribe to the Premium subscription..it's optional and if you chose not to then you will still see ads, and have the download countdown, and the same download speed as we have now. If you CHOOSE to take out the Premium subscription then you get an enhanced experience. Bottom line, if you don't want to pay then don't. Nothing is being taken away from you.

BIGFATMIKE

over 3 years ago

For everyone complaining about the Premium Subscription. This is obviously your first rodeo and you didn't understand the article... This takes me back to the Simviation.com days where they had a free version and a premium version that offered the same thing Flightsim.to is offering with Premium. Faster download speeds & all the goodies. I for one, am going to be purchasing the Premium the day it comes out. It's equivalent to going to your local coffee shop and buying a cup of coffee, you're supporting the business. If you don't have the funds to support, guess what, you can still download aircraft :)
Thanks Flightsim.to!

Trustdesa

over 3 years ago

What about creators? I admit I have read quickly however if I create addons published here I also have to pay for a subscription full price? Thought of anything catering for people in this way? Will read line by line later.

maczeta

over 3 years ago

It has a lot of ads and is hosting payware as well, which it pushes to a front page, isn't it?

FamilyWeb

over 3 years ago

I have but only one simple question.. How much will the Premium membership run?

KWDriver

over 3 years ago

lol.. then you obviously haven't been in the FS community for 20+ years.. as Flightsim.com has offered this exact thing for over 2 decades...

Epic7900

over 3 years ago

You clearly haven't read the whole post

latenightpilot

over 3 years ago

Ads on gaming sites don't pay well at all unfortunately. Very low CPM.

latenightpilot

over 3 years ago

I dunno if donations would be consistent enough, and ads on a gaming category website do not do well. Unless they have set contracts, they really don't pay at all.

smooner3

over 3 years ago

This times a billion. Used to be shareware and now there are hardly any software in the Windows world that is free or not expensive.

smooner3

over 3 years ago

I use the add-ons in this site and TBH I struggle with who and how much to tip. I don't mind paying because I know hosting is expensive. Hosting is pretty inexpensive until you factor in storage and download costs. AWS is free to upload into S3 but you pay when it is downloaded. More GB downloaded = more cost. BTW if you subscribe to a Twitch streamer they don't get 100% of the sub.
The best part is that I can choose to become a premium member or not.

smooner3

over 3 years ago

When did profit become such an evil word? Is the site providing a service for me? Yes. One stop for add-ons and it informs me when I need to update them. If I can and want to pay for faster downloads, no ads, and a host of other perks I should be given the opportunity. Not anyone but me can determine how I spend my money that I earned.

Djeez2

over 3 years ago

I like the idea very much. As it is now it is often cumbersome to make a donation. What I suggest is a system where we can purchase credits and donate them in small amounts, such as $1. The text suggests a minimum of $5 but for small bush strip enhancements or a nice flightplan that is too much (for me).

AirsardiniaVirtual

over 3 years ago

As internet client and devloper I know how much expensive is to mantain it. Well done guys, it's a matter of lealty to your service to understand that this has a cost and great efforts, I hope you do the best for all of us and thanks you a lot for the precious work you have done till now. 💖

Trollforce

over 3 years ago

To be honest, i don't like the way this site is going lately. Too much commercialisation. I will think twice before uploading my creations here.

Chris_T.N

over 3 years ago

I don't even use an adblocker and I still get that message!

chusair

over 3 years ago

if there are not enough donations that as you know won't be an issue, then if you are not optimizing your revenue stream. well, that would be an issue because at the end of the day there will always be someone like many other sites that will post the FREE work of the community, I morally object for the site to profit out of the FREE work of our community.

chusair

over 3 years ago

I don't think that you read the complete article I would suggest you read it again, but my point is that there should not be any kind of profit based on someone else's creation work and time,

Chris_T.N

over 3 years ago

TLDR: If you dont't want premium membership, nothing will change. If you choose to pay for premium membership, you get faster downloads etc..

brouhahaha

over 3 years ago

If that is the case, I don't see too much of an issue with it. However, if they start throttling download speeds for those who do not subscribe to the premium service, that would be a problem.
BTW, I love this site and want it to grow and get better.

chuckv

over 3 years ago

I hope for the creator's sake that flightsim.to is very open about how much they are making on subscriptions vs how much they are paying out to the creators. The creators make this site. Unless flightsim.to is very transparent, there seems to be a lot of room for profiteering.

PaulRix

over 3 years ago

I read the article..I suggest you re-read the last but one paragraph. Nothing changes if you choose not to subscribe at the premium level. If I choose to upgrade because, for example, I don’t want ads, then I have to pay for that. I see it as a simple choice. I certainly don’t see this as exploitation in the manner you are suggesting. In fact, this will potentially put some money in the pockets of the content creators. Also, a content creator has a choice of where they host their files. I don’t see any nefarious motive here.

latenightpilot

over 3 years ago

Why is for profit an issue? They are still offering a free platform for devs to host their content and there is still going to be a free download tier, albeit, with slower speeds. They have to make enough money to cover server costs, development, pay w/e staff, and use excess funds to contribute to a dev rewards program. What's the issue with that? Everyone says they aren't doing a good job maximizing revenue yet no one is suggesting an alternate or committing to whatever small ideas were suggested. Is there anything in life that is free? We can say maybe Facebook, but we pay for it with our personal data.

latenightpilot

over 3 years ago

I don't think you live in the real world and realize how expensive server costs are, for a site of this magnitude.

latenightpilot

over 3 years ago

There is still going to be a free tier. I dunno what people are freaking out about.

TacomaSailor

over 3 years ago

I do not understand all the teeth gnashing and angst about an OPTIONAL premium membership!
IF you do not want to support this site - then continue using the free dowloads and make whatever occasional donations you think appropriate.
I, for one, am very glad the founders have decided to offer the premium membership and to allow us to choose what level of support we need and will offer the site. I am an avid user of this site and visit at least daily.
I spent more than three decades in software development and support and do understand and appreciate the work the founders have done.

Edilclyde

over 3 years ago

Its easy to say that running a site like this should be driven by the love of the sim. But a site this big requires full time attention and developing. People need to pay their bills and earn a living my dude. This site needs developers to keep it running. They aren't cheap.

Edilclyde

over 3 years ago

I agree and don't agree with the statement " The creators make this site". As a Dev ops. I understand the pain and time on making sure a website of this magnitude is running smooth. There is a lot of things people don't see that is being done on the website. The creators and the flightsim.to BOTH MAKE THIS SITE. Without each other, we have nothing. But one thing is for sure, hosting is EXPENSIVE and with a website this big, it's a full time job and people have bills to pay and families to feed. There is nothing wrong with people profiting from their hardwork.

ArthurBlack

over 3 years ago

Love doesn’t pay the bills.

Edilclyde

over 3 years ago

With a website this big, it's a full time job and people have bills to pay and families to feed. There is nothing wrong with people profiting from their work

garfield

over 3 years ago

Hiya,
As creator myself i read in the "Creators Program" a sort of payware section, also number of downloads and ratings can be influenced. This seems nothing to do with the bandwidth cost. Even can generate even more bandwidth.
If people can get (extra) money by more downloads and/or higher ratings... you are on a sliding slope I fear.
@simpilotnews:A bit more respect to the replies here would help you case.
Marcel

Devinci

over 3 years ago

I may stop sharing my addons here. Nowadays when I connect most of what I see are payware. If that 's what I wanted I would have gone to more simmarket or the marketplace. Now there's this.

regis902

over 3 years ago

I'll be interested to see what the cost is for a premium subscription. If it lines up well with the extra benefits in terms of cost/value I have no problem signing up.

airifr

over 3 years ago

Theeere we go, we introduce premium to justify the need to put ads , effed up world!

DROGE

over 3 years ago

Nothing wrong with offering a (genuinely) optional premium service, for those who can afford it. With so many other sites though, as the "Premium" proposition comes in, the "Free" service sees throttled downloads, more intrusive ads etc.

TRXDesigns

over 3 years ago

I don't see your point?
From a user perspective, not a single thing will change? They somehow need to get an income, not everything is free? + you probably don't even know how much it costs to host a site with a server that holds all of those massive files?
And they deserve it, it's good that they'll also have a bigger income with nothing changing for the user...?Think twice before you post a comment like this...

TRXDesigns

over 3 years ago

Ads don't cover it at all, ads on websites like these are worthless & are not included in most sitelists where advertisers want their ads.

felixfer

over 3 years ago

You have just signed the death sentence of this platform. I didn't made my humble contributions to obtain money or to allow others to obtain a profit from them, I feel betrayed, I just wanted to share my work with others, in the same way I have access to their contributions.

ezwingman

over 3 years ago

As a long standing user I am more than happy to pay towards the upkeep of the site, and to lose all those pop up ads.Other sites have used this type of facility to gain a little back, and I have subscribed to them in the past to get faster downloads. All I hope is that it's a reasonable fee.

oni3miet

over 3 years ago

Hi. Here's some idea for you guys. Instead of trying to sell a subscription why not award loyal customers of the shop? There's no way I'm going premium on a subscription base. But if it came as a perk of choosing your store over others I might be on board buying things over here.

joncoughlin

over 3 years ago

Can't wait to join Premium. Godspeed getting things running.

PapaGolf

over 3 years ago

I'll sign up for the Premium Subscription. I've got so many great add-ons from this site and its a good way for me to support flightsim's ongoing costs and developers. Those who don't want to subscribe won't be impacted from my understanding, so nothing is being removed from current service! Can't see the problem quite frankly!

mgh65

over 3 years ago

You seem to be saying that the current FREE level of service will stay. If thats the case i dont understand all the negative reactions. You are just giving users an opportunity to move up a tier if they want to. I will wait and see how you treat contributors though, there is a marked difference ( in my opinion ) between a hand crafted scenery or airport with bespoke models and someone who produces photogrammetry using tools written by others. Dont get me wrong, i love the photogrammetry, but some of it is not fine tuned and adjusted so "relatively" less user effort. You have to get the balance between effort, quantity and ratings correct.

Edilclyde

over 3 years ago

@Garen , that doesn't make sense. What is the issue with people profiting from their hard work and asking for something back to help pay the bills? So you think only rich people can start a project like this? They are providing a service, do you not think they deserve something back?

mgh65

over 3 years ago

100% agree ....."let me read half a sentence then complain".......

bstikkel

over 3 years ago

I would certainly consider paying a bit for the Premium Membership, certainly if the freeware devellopers are also benefiting from it.

chusair

over 3 years ago

Profit is never an issue as long as you are the creator and there is of course a buyer eager to buy. Here is about something else it is about how to profit out of the interest of the buyers and the product shared free by its creator. Let me put it differently just humor me, think on you selling Samsung TVs ,,, difference Samsung is not getting paid ... That said I do understand that there is a cost and that is why I support adds and donations, but I feel that the creators the people that put the time, the effort and the creativity are taken advantage of.By the way I agree nothing is for free and yes, they are already making money, I am not exactly going to lose sleep over this ,,, and I agree it is costly and they need to find ways to cope with the cost but that is one thing the other monetize others people job. By the way there is a disclaimer associated with most of the stuff shared and indicates that any way to profit out of their work is unlawful. At the end of the day I am just only sharing my opinion

ArthurBlack

over 3 years ago

Literally the dumbest fucking response ever. Are you 7 years old?

KL791

over 3 years ago

As one of the creators with one of the most downloaded add-ons on flightsim.to I should be happy with this Creators Program. I am not. We are many contributors to the same project; now we will have to organize as a company in order to share profits from something we all meant to be free. The model suggested will create a revenue stream as eg. Youtube offers. We will become tax liable and have to spend time on administration on something which anyway will not be a huge income. On a more general note...The model suggested where updates means additional revenue could perfectly trigger that a lot of irrelevant updates are launched to the inconvenience of the users. Every time a creator has a new small change to include it would make economic sense to upload and provoke users to download a new version... How you will ensure transparency of the donation system is another thing? With paypal it is transparent, direct, and completely voluntary. The option exists on both sides not to give or receive donations. This proposed model combined with the recent changes to the terms of service, which basically left creators without rights, will most likely result in a discontinuation of our freeware on flightsim.to. - if someone wonder what the last is about then read this from the terms of service: (4.3) Licenses you are granting us: By submitting or posting User Content to the Service (either directly or through a Third Party Service) you grant this Site a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, sublicensable, assignable, unrestricted, worldwide license to use the User Content, together with all consents or waivers (if any) necessary to distribute, publicly perform, publicly display, transmit, communicate to the public and modify the User Content, by any means and in all media formats and channels now known or hereafter devised in perpetuity, and to advertise and promote such use, without further notice to, or permission from, you or any other person, and without compensation or reference to you or any other person. Quoted Text

JennyD

over 3 years ago

Making money from freeware is not something I'm feeling comfy with i wonder what airlines will think when they learn people are being rewarded for distribution of their liveries

KL791

over 3 years ago

This is an absolutely relevant consideration not just regards to liveries but regards to everything from logoes or even designs like buildings. Unfortunately the clause 4.3 in the terms of service actually makes it extremely difficult for a creator to remove anything from flightsim.to and the moment an upload is not real freeware but "remunerated" the risk that someone will take offense increases. That could be an architect behind an airport or monument or an aircraft manufacturer or ... or ... So turning freeware into hidden payware is not a smart idea.

GamingCat

over 3 years ago

That is good to hear! Finally us creators (and not only YouTubers) can become rich too, it was always my dream becoming a millionaire to build a pet sanctuary and having my own farm, and get a pre-owned JetRanger III - better late then never ☺️

phoenixhahn

over 3 years ago

I think a better move would be to implement a FlightSim.to installer (download manager) like how FBW did. I would vote for that!

rostyk

over 3 years ago

thats why now when i enter this site i switch off heating cuz "non noticeable advertisement" consume more CPU than MSFS

baryc99

over 3 years ago

1. Crete a free hobby site based on existing sites but with a pretty front end. 2. Build up the membership for a couple of years using the hard work of dedicated hobbyists. 3. Cash in! Now thats what I call one heck of a business plan.

iceman0870

over 3 years ago

so it will be sht download speeds unless you have premium.watch and see.bye bye flightsim.to

Exquisite

over 3 years ago

I understand your concerns about the Creators Program and how it may impact your current approach to sharing your mods. However, I would like to clarify that the Creators Program will be a voluntary service, and no one is required to participate in it. If you prefer to continue sharing your mods as you have been, you are welcome to do so.
Regarding your concern about organizing as a company to share profits, I want to emphasize that participating in the Creators Program is not equivalent to forming a company. The program is designed to provide an opportunity for creators to earn revenue from their creations, but it is not mandatory, and creators can choose to participate or not.
Regarding the concern about irrelevant updates, the Creators Program does have guidelines in place to prevent creators from spamming users with frequent, unnecessary updates. These guidelines are designed to ensure that updates are made for meaningful improvements to the mod, not just for the sake of generating additional revenue.
As for the transparency of the donation system, the Creators Program provides a clear breakdown of revenue earned from sales and donations, so creators can see how much they are earning from their creations. The system is designed to be transparent and easy to use.
Ultimately, the Creators Program is intended to provide an additional avenue for creators to earn revenue from their work, but it is up to each individual creator to decide whether or not to participate. If you choose not to participate, you can continue to share your mods as you have been doing.

latenightpilot

over 3 years ago

I'm not on trial. I don't need your assistance.

KL791

over 3 years ago

Hi - thanks for coming back on this one. It does at least some way down the road answer my concerns with the Creators Program... Then I hope that the money generated is shared among those who would like to receive money. But honestly, for my Global AI Ship Traffic there has never been an economic motive and on the contrary I want to stay clear of all obligation raised by receiving money from the project. All donations were reinvested in purchasing additional models and a couple of bottle of wine for a beta tester.
But you did not answer to the second part of the concern on the Terms. Today a user can, as far as I can see, delete an upload - I never tried so I can't be sure. But your terms state something very different and you have a policy against it. While the lawyers I work with in my professional life would have written the same thing if I asked them to write terms for flightsim.to, the terms effectively allows you to reupload anywhere you like for all eternity and even to modify the uploaders' files. That is not a fair condition and it can have serious legal consequences for the uploaders eg. if they run into a conflict on copyright, where a simple deletion would in many cases though not always satisfy a copyright holder. But you actually remove that right from the uploader, which is extremely dangerous. I know of one case where a major aircraft manufacturer went after a freeware designer big time and if his stuff had been on flightsim.to he would have been doomed financially, if you decided to stick to your Terms of Service. You simply need to include a right for users to remove their file at any time. You can tell people they should not do it, but they MUST have the right. You can not expect your content providers to be fully up to date on copyright law and what they infringe. I am sure Flightsim.to is aware which is why you have put in place a Terms of Service that safeguards at least partially flightsim.to, but you need to protect your uploaders' rights as well.

ArthurBlack

over 3 years ago

A good alternative to flighstim.to wouldnt just be very welcomed, but I feel like it is needed sooner or later.Go on then... start one, what's stopping you Mr. FixIt. Or maybe you just want everyone else to pay your way in life and spoon feed you everything for free. Honestly I wonder if you have reached double digits in IQ and age if you think that someone is going to hemorrhage money for the sake of a community of people like you who take and give nothing back except bitching.
Using an ad-blocker too to deny the site owner a revenue stream to cover costs... you really are incredibly entitled aren't you.

ArthurBlack

over 3 years ago

Uh oh... Mr 'I know everything about hosting costs and revenue streams' has an opinion!!

ArthurBlack

over 3 years ago

Probably not a workable idea given the narrow margin I imagine that the flightsim.to store probably operates on... but nice 'thinking outside of the box' instead of bitching "iT MusT bE FRee fOR mE"

samiturk8

over 3 years ago

maybe you pay for the coffee but i bet you dont pay for the sugars or stirrers you use for the coffee? We have payed money for the sim and also addons that have always been rather expensive, we dont expect to have to pay extra for liveries or scenery for something we have already paid money for

samiturk8

over 3 years ago

npc

samiturk8

over 3 years ago

you've been brainwashed to think that mate, it doesnt need to be that expensive, they recently implemetned better stack on the site to monitor the uptime and downtime of the site. Is that really needed for an addon site? Theres things you can do to keep the cost down and implementing irrelevant software doesnt help with that

dali

over 3 years ago

I always wanted to contribute in more structured way to flightsim.to and to get rid of adds at the same way. Premium membership is perfect way to do it. I will also continue to support authors with donations.

wktjr1

over 3 years ago

I pay on other sites. Nobody is forcing that on me. Same here. Where do I sign up??

simmershome

over 3 years ago

How right you are!

Crewchief408

over 3 years ago

Signed up for 3 months! I've been wanting this option since the beginning, and I'm loving it. In the future, I'm hoping to see a reoccurring payment method so the complete process is automated without interruption. Thanks for making this possible. 😀

KL791

over 3 years ago

I have discussed this with a number of developers and we will stop uploading to Flightsim.to until Terms of Service are changed as our files were not uploaded in the first place with this business model in mind. I have asked for removal of Global AI Ship Traffic from flightsim.to, but it is in the hands of flightsim.to to do that as we can as users not do it. It is a pitty because it was a good site; I have nothing against Premium supscriptions, but the model introduced is not acceptable in combination with the Terms of Service which removes all rights for content providers who are the fundament for Flightsim.to.

DennyAtkin

over 3 years ago

Just echoing @KL791's comments about the perpetual rights and inability to delete content. I have seen content deleted here in the past, but from the comments below, it sounds like that may no longer be an option.
I understand that your lawyers likely wrote the rights section to protect you. However, I'm assuming most legal teams aren't really familiar with a donation/freeware environment like the MSFS community. KL791 cited many legitimate reasons an author might want to delete content. It's also possible that content could break with a sim update (boy is that possible!), and an author may want to delete that broken content if they've chosen not to maintain it due to priorities, better alternative content, etc. I would encourage you to discuss with your legal team how to protect your own rights while not infringing on those of content creators.
You guys have become the defacto place to visit for MSFS content outside of the official marketplace. I hope you will listen to your contributors here and have your legal team update the terms to still protect what's necessary for you to do business, while remaining a developer-friendly site as well. Submitters must maintain rights and control of their content if you're going to remain the hub of the community.
I have no issues with premium membership. I signed up, and made a suggestion you offer a full-year package, in fact. There's value in the removal of pop-up ads and countdowns, and I'm happy to pay for the bandwidth I use. But you're a site that only exists because of the generosity and willingness to share of content creators -- and those content creators' rights and safety need to be priority zero as you look at how to monetarily support the site.

kobiwaldi

over 3 years ago

wow, you do realize that YOUR text reflects YOUR low iq?

kobiwaldi

over 3 years ago

I have my doubts about that. Maybe nothing will change yet, but in the future it will certainly... become different. Source: every damn other "premium" site

phbvq

over 3 years ago

I fully understand those freeware creators like KL791 who now wants to remove their files from Flightsim.to. It is a pitty but I would never share anything under such conditions and I will definitely not buy a Premium subscription after reading about this. You have room for improvement Flightsim.to!

KL791

over 3 years ago

After receiving a denial of deleting Global AI Ship Traffic I am together with a large group of content creators now organizing a boycot of Flightsim.to until Terms of Service are changed. You can follow our discussions on diverse fora.

KL791

over 3 years ago

Be aware that Content Creators are backing out. Read the comments on the Terms applied for Content Creators.

Steffsim

over 3 years ago

I fully support you. I just put my sceneries on unlisted. I find it totally disrespectful of flightsim.to how freeware developers are treated here. We must have the right to have our files deleted on request. Hope that many developers join the boycot.

Lagaffe

over 3 years ago

Like all the creators who saw MSFS appear then your site, I was interested. My first plane created for MSFS was uploaded on your site at the request of some of my followers.
Since yesterday, I have read your new rules and they do not suit me. As a French and European citizen, I keep all my creator rights on the addons I produce and I absolutely do not authorize you to change these rules without our written consent.Not being in agreement with these rules, I ask in the name of the European rules that my addon for MSFS be removed from your databases
Yours terms of service: (4.3) Licenses you are granting us: By submitting or posting User Content to the Service (either directly or through a Third Party Service) you grant this Site a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, sublicensable, assignable, unrestricted, worldwide license to use the User Content, together with all consents or waivers (if any) necessary to distribute, publicly perform, publicly display, transmit, communicate to the public and modify the User Content, by any means and in all media formats and channels now known or hereafter devised in perpetuity, and to advertise and promote such use, without further notice to, or permission from, you or any other person, and without compensation or reference to you or any other person.Quoted Text

MajiAho_N46

over 3 years ago

Hi, I am almost ready to release a free livery pack and a related small orthographic map for MSFS (of course freeware too). Obviously given TOS issue (4.3) I will not upload that content here. At the same time this is a great platform that generates a lot of traffic- does anybody know if I can just upload my package with all description, screenshots etc, but the file itself would be a .txt with a link to other file hosting service (such as mega.nz)? I have ZERO interest in getting any revenue, I am just asking if it would make it possible to have it "listed" here in that way.

WildLynxPilot

over 3 years ago

I fully support you and I have brought this to other developers and users attention on a couple of forums now. I will no longer upload my work to flightsim.to unless these rules are changed. As far as I understandstand the current policies are in stark conflict with national and international copyright laws.

jarmstro

over 3 years ago

If I were a creator I would avoid this site from now on. Given the work and time freely given the idea that by uploading a freeware project I loose any rights to it must surely be unacceptable.

Ron_Attwood

over 3 years ago

No, you're not the only one. For a long time I've felt that flightsim.to was too much of a good thing but I couldn't put my finger on it. The scales are falling from my eyes.

TimC340

over 3 years ago

I have no problem with paid Premium Accounts to fund servers etc. Fly Away have used this for years. But I have grave reservations about flightsim.to claiming the rights to retain and even modify creators' content and refusing creators the right to remove their content. And this without any kind of notice or 'cool off' period. I suspect that, in Europe at least, this policy is illegal. However, freeware creators don't have the economic strength to challenge this in court.
Even if creators stop contributing to flightsim.to and only update their products elsewhere, under these new terms there is nothing to stop this site downloading that product from somewhere else to update their offering here. This is immoral at best, and - even without doing this - these new terms effectively constitute theft of IP.
I very much hope flightsim.to reconsiders this course of action and makes appropriate changes.

WildLynxPilot

over 3 years ago

As a reminder to the people at flightsim.to. The current policy is in breach with the the European Property Rights.
"Everyone has the right to own, use, dispose of and bequeath his or her lawfully acquired possessions. No one may be deprived of his or her possessions, except in the public interest and in the cases and under the conditions provided for by law, subject to fair compensation being paid in good time for their loss. The use of property may be regulated by law in so far as is necessary for the general interest.
Intellectual property shall also be protected.
This right is enshrined in article 17 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights."

Right to property
Right to property is laid out in the chapter on freedoms of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights.
European Commission

FarlisKaneebe

over 3 years ago

Ihr habt sie doch nicht mehr alle.Das ist genau dieselbe Scheiße die Wizards of the Coast gerade versucht hat mit der D&D Community abzuziehen.

Ich kann ja absolut verstehen, dass ihr Serverkosten zu decken habt, aber dieser ganze Quatsch mit dem Creators Program, und zu glauben ihr könntet euch einfach die Rechte an allem, was hier hochgeladen wird sichern, geht zu weit.

Crewchief408

over 3 years ago

While I do agree with paying for faster downloads and no ads, I don't agree with any creator not being able to remove their own intelectual/digital property, that is a direct violation of US and International copyright laws. I am a professional photographer, and my photos are MY property and protected by those copyright laws. I don't post or display them anywhere I can't remove them. I support this part of your cause 100%.

garfield

over 3 years ago

Hi, fellow creators,
Please support the feedback below:

Flightsim.to » User Feedback: The current policy is in breach with the the European Property Rights.
Help us to improve the Flightsim.to project. Your suggestions and feedback are always welcome.
Flightsim.to

MartyVanDamm

over 3 years ago

How is it cumbersome to click on a PayPal link and donate whatever you like? Your idea of credits just seems like an unnecessary step to me.

edpatino

over 3 years ago

I can understand that running the site is costing money. For that same reason I'm not against the Premium Membership, which is not really anything new in this type of community. What it does not seem appropriate is that new rule about User Content that clearly violates existing creator's rights in several countries and defies common sense. I think is about time for Flightsim.to to re-consider those new terms with an open and good business sense to avoid a massive flood of excellent creators out from this site. It's up to you Flightsim.to. For me, I'll stand-by to see what happens and in the meantime no Premium and more uploads to this site from me.

TheMoose

over 3 years ago

I see very little "teeth gnashing and angst" about the membership. I do see a lot anger about the TOS, and rightfully so.

CptMoustache

over 3 years ago

Unlisted is not permanent as the files automatically become listed again after a few days. At this point there is no way to make a file both invisible and non-downloadable

daghb

over 3 years ago

It is. As a freeware developer myself, all contributions to this site will now end. I hope as many as possible do follow.

daghb

over 3 years ago

Not if they steal from the contributors.

daghb

over 3 years ago

And then followed quietness from the admins...

gnt586

over 3 years ago

not sure whats going on , but ive stopped uploading at moment , I did have a pop up todays saying i can have uploads deleted up to the 5th March i think i was ?

PuffinFlight

over 3 years ago

I'm considering doing the same. Having no control of my files is a big no no. Nothing against premium, but how can I be sure that flightsim.to won't go behind a paywall one day? They can. It's their business, nothing against that. But then I don't want my files on a paywalled site. Unfortunately with these terms I can do nothing about it.

BritishAvgeek

over 3 years ago

I'm curious to know more... 👀

daghb

over 3 years ago

Please read the rest of this thread. They have updated their legal terms to a point where you can't even delete your own contributions, and they're free to use and modify the uploaded content with no limitations.

OjisanAlpha

over 3 years ago

Sorry guys, you just committed suicide.Your site is phantastic, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with introducing subscriptions to cover your costs and make some money.But your new license guidelines are going to kill this site. Either by a lack of quality content in the future or by content creators sueing you.
You probably cannot win this battle.

BritishAvgeek

over 3 years ago

You're right with tax. It's a headache - anything over £1000 in a year earnt as "self-employed" in the UK has to be declared to HMRC.

BritishAvgeek

over 3 years ago

Wow, not even seen the updated terms! I've just caught up and it's a little concerning to read - not least the very valid concerns re:taxation but also the updated terms. Nobody wants to work their backside off to have files taken from them and used as they wish for another company to earn money from

BritishAvgeek

over 3 years ago

Built by the incredible talent within the global flight simulation community... who for their work deserve to have their work protected in their own names

daghb

over 3 years ago

Spot on. There is a wave coming with freeware devs removing their stuff as we speak. Including much used freeware with more than 150.000 downloads

BritishAvgeek

over 3 years ago

Thanks for the reply. I've tweeted about it and trying to learn more myself asap

maczeta

over 3 years ago

He never intented to answer to that part in the first place. All admin have to say to you is this used line "program is designed to provide an opportunity for creators to earn revenue"... which creators never craved in the first place. Leaves you wondering, whether it's someone else who would like to "earn revenue" from others free work...

maczeta

over 3 years ago

"Why is for profit an issue? "What you desrcribe here is maintance cost not profit. Profit is what ends up in your wallet after covering all the expenses. And I do have issue with profitting out of someone elses free work. Also, you and I both have no idea whether this move is motivated by ramping server cost or simple will of site owners to cash out. They do not share their sheets with us. You can speculate in a good will and I can be much more pessimitic.
"Is there anything in life that is free?"
Well, addons on .to in 2020-2022 (RIP) I guess.

DennyAtkin

over 3 years ago

Given the nearly universally negative reaction to the deletion issue that Flightsim.to is seeing from the contributors that make their site viable and significant, I'm shocked at the lack of acknowledgement and the short-term offer to allow deletion for a couple of weeks as a "solution." My own contributions to this site are tiny and insignificant in the big picture. But seeing so many important, popular creators wanting to leave the site due to the deletion policy makes me sad as supporter and user and fan of this site since the earliest days.
It's a weird sword to decide to sacrifice yourself on. I can't see why, given the obvious negative reaction from so many of the people who have contributed the content that has made this site a success so far, the siterunners aren't willing to admit that they need to accommodate this concern about being able to remove files that's been so clearly and justifiably explained by the contributors to this site.
Flightsim.to has established itself as the go-to website for PC users looking for add-ons for MSFS. If they don't listen to their contributors here, we're going to see many contributors pull out and the content spread across multiple sites that are more accommodating to contributor concerns. I hope that the folks running this site can sit back and calmly listen to the concerns expressed by @KL791, @Lagaffe, and so many other contributors and update their terms to accommodate the concerns of site contributors. Because if they don't, it's going to hurt their own plans for a sustainable future, it's going to hurt content creators looking for the best way to distribute their stuff, and it's going to hurt users who have spent well over two years making this site the go-to place for content.
I've been around flight sims since they started. And I've seen online retailers and fan sites come and go, and this feels like a critical moment in Flightsim.to's future. I hope in the end they realize that they owe creators so much for their success so far, and that they listen to the concerns that are being expressed and accommodate those concerns, instead of doubling down on their initial ideas for how the site would work. Because if they take the latter route, they lose, the creators lose, and we as users lose as well.

Jynova

over 3 years ago

I think this needs to be walked back and reviewed. Flightsim.to has been a staple to the MSFS community since basically day 1. Creators are threatening to leave and the community is clearly upset. There is no need to go to such extremes with the ToS or Premium models. If the content leaves, you are left with just a website of dead mods like the many others who came around launch but did not provide what we loved about this site.
Please consider reverting this to keep creators here as well as their hard work.

KL791

over 3 years ago

This pop us is trying to coerce you to accept their unacceptable terms fast; if you don't take a stand now and give us full rights to all you uploaded you can never regret... It shows quite a lot that instead of really listening to what we try to tell them, they try to push you and honestly... who can really understand the very complex legal Terms of Service that the lawyers of these very enthusiastic creators, as they describe themselves, have written.
Why don't they write instead "We are pleased to help you distribute your creations to the public, however, you can at any time inform us that your content should no longer be shared, whereafter we will automatically delete it from our platform"

WildLynxPilot

over 3 years ago

If you are sincere in what you say in that press release, then immediately change your Terms of Service to reflect it! The current ToS tells a very different story. A press release changes nothing and will not change our (freeware developers) minds. Sensible ToS would probably do.

Skyaigrette

over 3 years ago

It is very sad to see this "Premium" nonsense. First of all, I want to say that I am not a creator, I simply download files and use them. As a consumer, I want to share my opinion. I would like to point out that creators share their works voluntarily for free. Therefore, I always thought this platform provided a free environment where developers could develop and contribute to the flight simulation world, while consumers could benefit from it. For the past six years, I have been flying on various flight simulators (FSX, P3D, XP11, MSFS) and I have always seen many plugins, sceneries, and other resources scattered across the internet. This made it difficult for consumers to choose between the many payware/free plugins that do the same thing and there was no easy way to compare them. Moreover, it was challenging to find them since there were only a few prominent websites, which made it hard for lesser-known creators to get noticed. This is why I love this site. Creators don't have to pay for servers, and there is a centralized network where they can upload their works for free if they want. People can compare them, and the platform is safe. I have always thought that the purpose of these websites was to create a safe environment for everyone. However, I now feel like flightsim.to is not much different from others that try to steal money from people. The platform now has speed limits, comparison charts between subscriptions, and promotes the most popular signboards. This platform used to have something different and honorable compared to others. However, it seems like that is no longer the case. This seems to be a shift away from the free, open environment that I believed this platform was meant to provide. I just want to say sad... very sad. And so far I see, developers are not happy too because they can not even handle their OWN products because of flightsim.to.

edpatino

over 3 years ago

With more than 540,000 members, and assuming 30% to 40% (to be conservative) of them become premium members, a $5 membership fee would represent a total of approx. $900,000 per month of income. Obviously, server and maintenance costs of this site are very well below that amount, leaving an important monthly profit to the site owners. This would leave a good margin to be shared with the creators to have them interested in continuing posting at the site maybe through the form of credits or points accumulated to each of their accounts, otherwise, along with the new TOS in place, they'll loose interest and will stop posting, making this site unprofitable. Flightsim.to has to reset their minds and look for something more feasible and acceptable to everybody, considering the freeware business is the heart of this website.

flyfox

over 3 years ago

"Einstellung des Schöpferprogramms " do you mean really Close (german Einstellung) ????? or better "Setup or create something new" ??

Naner340

over 3 years ago

Through my personal profile I want to communicate that, after an internal meeting, we decided that the i9 Simulations profile, all its uploads and the accounts of all our collaborating members are being deleted from FlighSim.To. The reason for this is that we disagree with the new policy adopted by this page. Our commitment to the community has always been to provide the best content for free, and we don't think it's fair for other people or companies to take our intellectual property and gain undue profit from our work. We thank the community that has always welcomed us very well, but the time has come to move on. Greetings!

Henrique_Santos

over 3 years ago

I don't want to be dramatic, but this feels like the end of an era. For a long time FlightSim has been great for our community. It brought us together and made us grow in a healthy way, as a good community should be. But unfortunately greed won out! Thank you to everyone who somehow contributed to us. Greetings friends! I'm also moving away from FlightSim! Last one out, please turn off the light!

Guenseli

over 3 years ago

Sorry to not join the panic mode ...ToS hasn't changed recently regarding the deletion. The ToS are the same nearly every forum uses. You upload stuff, they need the license and grant to host that stuff for 3rd party, otherwise the run into serious law suites.And of course they want the files to be still linked here instead of delete them completely, think about all the libraries many other addons use.
So, now wait until the storm is over and then we enjoy FS.to again as it was. All others can then download their stuff at a dozen different sites as it was in former FSX times ;)